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	<title>Comments on: Loving Homosexuals as Jesus Would: A Fresh Christian Approach</title>
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	<link>http://egaycafe.com/loving-homosexuals-as-jesus-would-a-fresh-christian-approach/</link>
	<description>Gay, Lesbian &#38; Transgender World News</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: &#160;J. Huck "Jayhuck"</title>
		<link>http://egaycafe.com/loving-homosexuals-as-jesus-would-a-fresh-christian-approach/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>&#160;J. Huck "Jayhuck"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.egaycafe.com/?p=195#comment-354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This book is absolutely NOT about science. The book completely ignores or dismisses a number of studies that have been done by Christian and secular therapists, most of them straight, who have shown that most homosexuals are happy, and that many are very capable, in spite of society&#039;s inability, still,  to fully accept them, to form lasting and loving relationships.  This book also doesn&#039;t mention the number of studies done very recently that show that the children of homosexuals grow up no better OR worse than those of heterosexual couples - although I think it&#039;s important to mention these things.  This book IS about a sect of Christianity that truly believes it is immoral, not to be gay mind you, but for homosexuals to seek romantic love with each other.  This idea of immorality is the mindset that Doctors Nicolosi and Socarides (a co-founder of NARTH who has a gay son) start with when they perform their research, and this is the mindset of almost all who are involved with the Ex-Gay movement.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In this book Chad uses a list of numbers and percentages in an effort to show that most gay men have problems in their relationships with their fathers.  One problem here, if you look close enough, is that he offers no comparable numbers for straight men.  The most glaring error with this conclusion however, is that nowhere in this list of numbers are we told exactly WHEN the gay men developed these poor relationships with their fathers.  This is important, because most therapists agree that sexual orientation is set in the very early years of life, some say by the age of 3.  HOWEVER, most gay men don&#039;t develop poor relationships with their fathers until much later in life - in their teens or even later.    These kinds of things happen frequently in Chad&#039;s book though.  He appears so eager to spread his message of change, that the search for Truth gets lost in the process.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The only real disturbing thing about Chad&#039;s message/book, is that he maintains change is open to *anyone* who wants it.  This statement however flies in the face of all available evidence from mainstream psychologists AND NARTH.  The success rate for Reparative Therapy varies anywhere from 20% - 70%, depending on who you talk to.  Some recent evidence suggests that the success rate is well below 40%.  This means that a vast majority of individuals who seek this type of therapy, and who I assume really want to change, are NOT able to.  This has also led to the Ex-Ex Gay movement, which is interesting in its own right.  The advocates of Reparative Therapy see these failures and put the blame on the patient, saying that they just didn&#039;t try hard enough - which seems really sad to me.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Most psychologists worth their salt would admit that they  don&#039;t fully understand sexuality yet.  Scientists are pretty sure, as Chad says, that it is formed by a combination of genes and environmental factors:  this applies to hetero- as well as homo-sexual orientations.  The difference between all mainstream doctors and therapists and those who belong to NARTH, is that NARTH claims it DOES know the reason for homosexuality - or rather REASONS - and Chad&#039;s book gives us a laundry list of those things that NARTH&#039;s proponents claim cause homosexuality - none of which are backed up by peer studies.  I will never go so far as to claim that Chad hasn&#039;t changed - I believe at the very least that he believes he has changed - the mind is a very powerful thing when we want something badly enough.  Another aspect of sexual orientation that is not discussed in this book, is that orientations seem to be more fluid than they are static - some people lead straight lives for awhile then realize they are really gay, or at least they are more attracted to men than women.  This happens in reverse as well.  Some men begin dating other men, and find out later in life that they are really more attracted to the opposite sex.  All of this can and does happen without prayer or the intervention of a few Christian therapists and evangelists with a  political/moral agenda to push - not that Chad has a political agenda - I think his message is well-intentioned and free of politics - BUT, the people who frequently sponsor Chad and the rest of the Ex-Gay movement, DO have a political agenda, and they are serious and determined to undermine gay people and their search for equal rights.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Chad&#039;s overview of the APA&#039;s 1973 decision to remove homosexuality from the list of psychological diseases is far too simplistic, and doesn&#039;t take into account a number of things going on at the time like the very anti-gay atmosphere that existed in the group, or the fact that it took the group a full year of discussing the issue before it was pulled from the DSM.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would like to write more but I only hope that people will appreciate and respect Chad&#039;s message, but not take everything he has to say as &quot;gospel&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This book is absolutely NOT about science. The book completely ignores or dismisses a number of studies that have been done by Christian and secular therapists, most of them straight, who have shown that most homosexuals are happy, and that many are very capable, in spite of society&#8217;s inability, still,  to fully accept them, to form lasting and loving relationships.  This book also doesn&#8217;t mention the number of studies done very recently that show that the children of homosexuals grow up no better OR worse than those of heterosexual couples &#8211; although I think it&#8217;s important to mention these things.  This book IS about a sect of Christianity that truly believes it is immoral, not to be gay mind you, but for homosexuals to seek romantic love with each other.  This idea of immorality is the mindset that Doctors Nicolosi and Socarides (a co-founder of NARTH who has a gay son) start with when they perform their research, and this is the mindset of almost all who are involved with the Ex-Gay movement.</p>
<p>In this book Chad uses a list of numbers and percentages in an effort to show that most gay men have problems in their relationships with their fathers.  One problem here, if you look close enough, is that he offers no comparable numbers for straight men.  The most glaring error with this conclusion however, is that nowhere in this list of numbers are we told exactly WHEN the gay men developed these poor relationships with their fathers.  This is important, because most therapists agree that sexual orientation is set in the very early years of life, some say by the age of 3.  HOWEVER, most gay men don&#8217;t develop poor relationships with their fathers until much later in life &#8211; in their teens or even later.    These kinds of things happen frequently in Chad&#8217;s book though.  He appears so eager to spread his message of change, that the search for Truth gets lost in the process.</p>
<p>The only real disturbing thing about Chad&#8217;s message/book, is that he maintains change is open to *anyone* who wants it.  This statement however flies in the face of all available evidence from mainstream psychologists AND NARTH.  The success rate for Reparative Therapy varies anywhere from 20% &#8211; 70%, depending on who you talk to.  Some recent evidence suggests that the success rate is well below 40%.  This means that a vast majority of individuals who seek this type of therapy, and who I assume really want to change, are NOT able to.  This has also led to the Ex-Ex Gay movement, which is interesting in its own right.  The advocates of Reparative Therapy see these failures and put the blame on the patient, saying that they just didn&#8217;t try hard enough &#8211; which seems really sad to me.</p>
<p>Most psychologists worth their salt would admit that they  don&#8217;t fully understand sexuality yet.  Scientists are pretty sure, as Chad says, that it is formed by a combination of genes and environmental factors:  this applies to hetero- as well as homo-sexual orientations.  The difference between all mainstream doctors and therapists and those who belong to NARTH, is that NARTH claims it DOES know the reason for homosexuality &#8211; or rather REASONS &#8211; and Chad&#8217;s book gives us a laundry list of those things that NARTH&#8217;s proponents claim cause homosexuality &#8211; none of which are backed up by peer studies.  I will never go so far as to claim that Chad hasn&#8217;t changed &#8211; I believe at the very least that he believes he has changed &#8211; the mind is a very powerful thing when we want something badly enough.  Another aspect of sexual orientation that is not discussed in this book, is that orientations seem to be more fluid than they are static &#8211; some people lead straight lives for awhile then realize they are really gay, or at least they are more attracted to men than women.  This happens in reverse as well.  Some men begin dating other men, and find out later in life that they are really more attracted to the opposite sex.  All of this can and does happen without prayer or the intervention of a few Christian therapists and evangelists with a  political/moral agenda to push &#8211; not that Chad has a political agenda &#8211; I think his message is well-intentioned and free of politics &#8211; BUT, the people who frequently sponsor Chad and the rest of the Ex-Gay movement, DO have a political agenda, and they are serious and determined to undermine gay people and their search for equal rights.</p>
<p>Chad&#8217;s overview of the APA&#8217;s 1973 decision to remove homosexuality from the list of psychological diseases is far too simplistic, and doesn&#8217;t take into account a number of things going on at the time like the very anti-gay atmosphere that existed in the group, or the fact that it took the group a full year of discussing the issue before it was pulled from the DSM.</p>
<p>I would like to write more but I only hope that people will appreciate and respect Chad&#8217;s message, but not take everything he has to say as &#8220;gospel&#8221;.</p>
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